@wolverine i don’t think that EITHER bcw or sov holders should get “exclusivity”. I do think that there should be a pool reserved for them at launch at a fixed offering price, and i do think it should be with a per-wallet cap.
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It would look 3x better optically for the SOV stakeholders if we just had a Day 1 round for them, and a Day 2 round for BCW. Could even be same price & allocations.
Another option is 2 days of both SOV stakers and BCW, but putting another group over people who uphold the Sovryn Protocol is just a bad look.
Just having the SOV stakers favored for the first Origins sale will set a good precedent in future sales.
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Hello @wolverine this seems to be an awsome project, and we all have a lot to learn and understand about it. However, I have heard from community leaders that this very interesting SIP, is going to be deployed for voting into the Bitocracy system this very next week.
The problem I see here, is that code is law, and we have a motto here in Sovryn: we don’t like to have to trust, but verify.
So, how can we explain to the SOV holders, to the Bitocracy citizens that just a week before to vote on this proposal, the Git Hub repository is not yet public?
If thre is a good reason to keep it private, we need at least to POSTPONE the voting on this SIP.
Otherwise, the Git Hub repo must be converted into public ASAP.
Thank you very much
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babelfish.money’s products are being integrated into the Sovryn dapp, which means that the code is vetted by the protocol / project stewards, will be audited, etc, in the same way the pomp syndicate was vetted and audited by project stewards. This request is a bit paranoid, and indicates distrust in the verification process that enables this SIP to be drafted.
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How will this sale proceed now?
I am a Sovryn holder since day 1 and would like to participate in the sale - but it seems staking is required? I am not staking because of religious reasons.
Are there other options or does this mean I can’t participate in any (future) sale held on the platform?
@Itachi - may I ask what religious reasons there are not to stake? I am curious.
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Staking on itself is permissible. It depends on the nature of the staking model. In Sovryns case, some of the staking rewards are coming from interest fees charged to borrowers.
My religion forbids receiving and paying any form of interest. Even the recording or witnessing of such transactions are forbidden. I could go into more detail - but I guess you know how the Abrahamic religions approach the issue 
Even though I am not participating in Bitocracy. I am proud to be part of this amazing community! Stay Sovryn 
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I appreciate your perspective @TheGimp, and I mostly agree. I just want to add some of my experience for context. I took half the SOV I bought via Origin presale and staked it in the Bitocracy. The other half I matched with rBTC and deposited into the SOV/rBTC V1 Liquidity Pool. So I brought more rBTC onto the platform and I took a big risk with impermanent loss.
Of course, I knew that there was risk of IL in the SOV/rBTC AMM. That’s why I split between staking and market making. I wanted to support the project by helping make the market (and also hopefully earn some sweet perks for it too). However, I don’t think any real SOV bull would ever want to stake a SOV/rBTC V1 AMM… why would a SOV bull continue to stake a black box of IL certainty without a juicy reward? We don’t want our key market-makers on the platform to all be SOV bears. That’s not a good situation. So we need to keep the rewards very attractive for market-makers or we won’t have any markets at all.
Many of the comments and discussions surrounding this SIP and a lot of other topics with Sovryn governance, continue to raise an interesting question of risk vs reward vs contribution to the project. We have to evaluate and weight the various contributions:
#1. SOV Bitcocracy Staking-
Risk: Virtually Zero (this is important)
Reward: Modest / Undefined (but the point is that you’re 100% guaranteed to have more SOV than you started with at the end of the day)
Benefit to project: Yes, governance is critical, but we must have something to govern. If everyone only staked SOV Bitocracy, we would all be governing a platform with no markets.
#2. SOV/rBTC V1 AMM-
Risk: High, especially for SOV bulls who know SOV is going to the moon
Reward: Appealing, however somewhat diluted do to liquidity expectations greatly exceeded.
Benefit to project: Critical, no initial market for SOV without SOV bulls willing to take one for the team and stake this black box of IL certainty.
Since I’ve staked the Bitocracy and the V1 AMM SOV/rBTC (and I’ve also staked some rBTC in the double sided V2 rUSDT/rBTC DAMM liquidity pool), I have as good an understanding as any of the relative risk. Although, that’s not saying too much because the present value of my investment into the SOV/rBTC V1 AMM is still entirely unknowable to me. I can see my share of the Lootdrop reward, which is nice to know… but I have no idea how much IL I have suffered to my principle. Bitcocracy stakers carry zero of this concern or risk. I’m not worried about my SOV in the Bitocracy and I don’t even care too much how much I’ll earn over there. I know that I’ll earn something and I’m not risking my SOV principle there. Like everyone who is staked in the V1 AMM, I have no idea how much my original position is worth now… not until we get some visualization tools.
I know that I have 2.98 LP tokens which means nothing to me. I know that I’m projected to earned like 23 SOV by the end of the 75k Lootdrop period next week. That’s all I know. Will I get my 100 SOV and 0.035 BTC back out of the V1 AMM? Certainly not. I’ll probably get a whole lot less SOV out of the V1 AMM, because SOV price is going up as we all expect. But don’t forget that those initial price moves can’t even happen without a market to buy and sell. I helped make that market with half of my SOV. I may lose half of that (a quarter of my SOV) for staking the V1 AMM.
I’m not complaining or asking for anything special for any particular group. I’m just pointing out my experience to help shape the conversation. I can see both sides, but having experienced both sides, I think the V1 AMM stakers are making a more substantive contribution to the project. That’s why I’ve been talking about minting some Sovryn NFTs to commemorate our initial market makers. Either way, I’ll probably qualify to participate in round 1 $FISH sale since I split my SOV both directions. That was part of my strategy as well. I knew I had more or less two options with uncertain rewards, so I split my investment equally between them.
As for the Babelfish core start-up community from Blockchain Whispers… I wish they would have invited us Sovryns to join BCW premium at some point. I don’t even know what the membership costs, but I’m certainly curious to join BCW now. Seems like a lot of good stuff coming from that community and I want in. So, I also propose that if Babelfish moves forward with a BCW exclusive $FISH presale round, that Babelfish community also consider leveling the playing field a little with Sovryns by offering us the option to join BCW premium for the next few days or something like that. Maybe only post that information here on the forum or in the Discord. That way we could give Sovryns who are actively involved in the community, the chance to become retroactive “honorary” BCW community members. I know it sounds a little silly, maybe it is. I don’t really know all the history behind how Babelfish came to be within the BCW community. From one perspective, I feel like it’s important to allow the key developers and concept designers the opportunity to conduct a smaller presale round. But it would have to be extremely transparent (and I’m certain that it would be).
Okay, just a few thoughts for now. Will come back and check responses soon. Please let me know if there are any obvious considerations which I may have overlooked. I’m really excited about developing this platform with all of you! I plan to become more involved here. Please look out for my Sovryn governance delegate application. I’m about to start working on that.
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However it unfolds, I want to know more about BCW! Seems like it’s becoming a common birthplace for greatness.
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It’s always the perogative of the token offerer to decide how they want to incentivize their own community as compared to the Sovryn community. In fact, I think it was really thoughtful, considerate, and wise to introduce this conversation here to identify concerns and shape the SIP in a way that’s optimal for both communities as we come together. We’re going to have all sort of opportunities to work together in the future. I can imagine a Sovryn $FISH V2 DAMM LP, and maybe even $FISH LP token farming.
It’s really cool to see everyone’s perspectives here. I agree with both of these sentiments… would be great for the first $FISH presale on Sovryn to be open to $SOV stakers and V1 AMM stakers in the SOV/rBTC pair. So this is why we’re all having this discussion over here. Now Babelfish and Sovryn community perspectives are being voiced and we’ll have to see what the SIP edits look like. I’m planning to offer up my services as a Bitocracy delegate in this community. I’m basically straddling both between both projects, so I will continue to do my best to have the relevant information to vote in the interests of both communities.
Please get your facts right before slandering BCW about Delta Financial
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I’ve been SOV since genesis and have been staking since May 2. I don’t think it’s fair that I can’t participate in the pre-sale because I didn’t stake on May 1st. The fact of staking or not since May 1st should not give more or less importance to the people who have invested and believe in the Sovryn project.
This is a really strange decision…
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I can dig it. I’m not sure the Babelfish community is eager to airdrop precious $FISH. But I do love the sound of free fish. I think Dark Knight mentioned on the Babelfish community call on Monday that the possibility of a $FISH airdrop was being considered, but had not yet been decided.
I recognize a ton of people from this community in the Babelfish discord. We basically are largely the same community already anyway from what I can tell. If you were going to draw a Venn Diagram, it would be a small circle representing Sovryn community, with a smaller circle within it representing the Babelfish community. There may be a very small handful of Babelfishes who are not Sovryns hanging slightly over the edge of the Sovryn circle.
I’m excited to see the amended SIP and cast a vote. I’ll be seeking to vote in the mutual best interests of both communities because I’m a part of both and I want both to thrive! I also want to mention that Dark Knight has earned my trust and respect. I recently began contributing memes, blog posts, and logo design elements to the Babelfish community and interacting with the team.
It’s a very competent, committed, and enthusiastic group that is passionately building something which can be almost 100% altruistic. I’ve considered this often with fully decentralized start-ups. I’m totally okay with core devs and engineers who launch a product into the community’s stewardship to hold a fully transparent and private sale for a few dozen project progenitors totaling no more than 5% of the total token supply. Otherwise, the initial gestational labor at the project’s inception is completely unrewarded.
It would be even cooler if communitues recognized and valued our top contributors and put forth improvement proposals to vote on issuing rewards and bonusse to key contributors. I’m theoretically 100% in favor of that sort of governance as long as there are measures in place to prevent endless consolidation of voting power (but that becomes a sybil attack bottleneck so maybe we should be working on or looking for a good Sybil disrupter for the platform and RSK Network in general). Anyone know of any good proof-of-human projects?
I really like the idea behind this project. However, I would be extremely disappointed not to be able to participate because I staked my SOVs on May the 2nd and not the 1st. Instead, why not include the addresses of the origins which still have SOVs in the eligible participants?
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Yes, agree! Best and most fair for me would be the until the SIP proposal is launched, simply because some of the people didn’t stake their SOV by the 1st of May and they are strong holders, including me here. I didn’t sell a single SOV from origin, I did all in LP and so I bought and stake more SOV to be able to participate. The Babelfish is an early project with still a small community and imo everyone interested of investing in this project deserves a chance.
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Thanks for sharing your experience @cptosheh I think this perspective is sometimes overlooked. Our “Loki” community (market-makers) are way to important to leave out of anything for any reason. IMHO market-makers are the most valuable contributors… but the Bitocracy stakers are also of vital importance to the community, especially those who actively participate. So market-makers should have equal access as Bitocracy stakers.
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I think it’s important that the Sovryn community understand the impetus for Babelfish and get to know the community behind the project. Read this whole Twitter thread from Leon Markovitz to get better acquainted:
We’re an international community of blockchain enthusiasts, many of which have experienced monetary persecution and lived through the failures of central banking and fiat currencies. There’s been a lot of development that has already gone into Babelfish and it’s about to go live. So I personally would like to see the Babelfish development team have an opportunity to reap a greater reward than myself and other Sovryns who didn’t help build the protocol. As long as it’s not something crazy. I mentioned before that I’m comfortable with decentralized startups reserving up to 5% or so of their total supply for exclusive visionaries and founding builders community presale.
However, I don’t know how Babelfish is structuring compensation for its core team. Here in the Sovryn community, we’re taking care of Sovryn core team compensation through the treasury. But Babelfish is developing its own structure which I trust will be equally altruistic and in the interests of the entire community. Don’t forget that we need core teams to be able to dedicate their lives to this calling, so they must be compensated so that our communities can grow.
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Thanks NOVAX! I would say you doxxed me, except this is a tweet thread on an open project so all good.
Indeed, BabelFish’s team is decentralised, yet organised around the shared vision to accelerate hyper-Bitcoinization by enhancing stablecoin markets through a translation device across chains. If we don’t do this, who will? And if not now, when? BabelFish is and will continue to be transparent in its collective decisions, it must do so to be successful as a trusted protocol in the DeFi universe over the long term. Fortunately, we have the example being set by the Sovryn protocol and community to follow as example.
Stoked to have the opportunity to create BabelFish with a passionate community aligned on Bitcoin’s core values, looking forward to buidling together! 
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I don’t know what they did for Sovryn but we should not act as they build SOV themselves.
If you don’t know what they did do for Sovryn, then how can you be so sure that they didn’t help build Sovryn?! And in actual fact I hear they did, by providing the support, liquidity and user base to launch it, not only successfully, but better far better than most others!
I mean, did you see how the Coinbase launch went in comparison…!
If yourself and others like you should be prioritised in the second round, can you please explain why and what you have contributed to deserve it, other than slander those you are obviously jealous of and know nothing about, as ‘apes’?
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BCW is a community for the rich. Just check their monthly fees. If you have a small portfolio you’re NGMI.
Erm not quite. You could say that BCW Premium is a community for the ‘rich’ as it is only advised for those with larger portfolios willing to take bigger risks, hence the high fees to join to put off those not ready yet. However the majority of the community resides in the free offering that welcomes, supports and teaches those new to crypto investing.
I get the impression that this whole area might be relatively new to you, so I highly recommend looking into it, as DYOR is something that is hugely encouraged, especially by Sovryn, before getting involved due to how quick and easy it can be to lose everything, and trust me, I know!
Lack of understanding and/or rush for a ‘quick buck’ is the easiest way to fall into this trap…