SIP-00XX The 3 Critical Price Impacting Changes Requested By The Community

[DMAN]

Yo Monkey Mods!
When you started censoring people here, you are no longer friends.
I immediately withdrew SIP.

So now, you don’t need to wait for your boss to approve you the deletion of MY thread… you can do some decision. If not fine…

But it comes with a candy… after you delete my thread, you can delete my account or use that terrible ban hammer of yours… booo…

You censoring monkeys now you get to censor everything.

Here’s a couple posts for people to see what you censored… so people can see if those violated anything or not!

Cocksuckers!

you invite for a debate my ass… you invited yourself to censor slowly and then to say it’s no vote… LUCKILY we won by a STRONG MAJORITY… strong majority showed support for this SIP. So it will be remembered.

Not by me. Fuck me. But by the people here. They all witnessed this. Even those few who disliked the SIP.

[DMAN]

[K8_ra]

Unbelievable, I Support D Man’s proposal, I could understand the need to slow down a little and give it some time to discuss a radical new idea, but I didn’t expect to find such a negative attitude for this proposal from so little amount of people. I strongly believe this draft comes from the best intentions after two long AMA’s. I think we all are aware of Yago’s genius ideas, but in regards of financial efficiency I definitely give my vote to D Man’s proposal. I’m sure Yago’s vision will make SOVRYN great in few years, but maybe just another great project that could have become THE PROJECT of reference and simply didn’t achieve that level for just ignoring some good advice. We don’t know the future, maybe Yago is 100% right, maybe he is not, we should be here to openly discuss that, but for me the real problem now is the not so transparent way of things in SOVRYN lately. It’s true, we all want SOVRYN to succeed. No, it’s not true BCW’s are her to pump the price in order to dump (We have been dumped in our faces since $80 all the way down to $3). We (the great majority: BCW’s and non BCW’s alike) are committed for the long run as far as we feel part of a community, that our ideas or opinions are heard, if that sense of community is lost in a project like SOVRYN then we just need to buy big candles to light up and pray for Yago to succeed alone in his vision and some day eventually bringing value back to the SOV token in order to achieve some financial freedom. Amen

[Jolami]

First, I love how Dman ignited fire and ignited democracy in the community. In the face of current development pressure, there must be a change. Of course, I find any direction acceptable given the long-term vision that Sovryn is building with a solid structure from the ground up.

1. I don’t think I would agree because the main change of the element will almost affect the texture of the house. Another proposition other than being able to place individual liquid Sov in the form of a cross-sectional penalty on burning the contract, this relieves the pressure from selling pressure and the dilution from those with large stakes would be invisible making them more liquid. to sell when they buy at a lower price. Fees will be divided among bettors as before. it can invoke a more fairness towards the new citizen without putting too much pressure on him!

2. UI/UX is clearly a “must” act immediately as most people would agree. I only have 500sov in stake, and I hope I or anyone for sovryn expect a more reasonable and appropriate adjustment/change rather than a deadlock outcome and a cold war many other risks.

[harmaus]

I did read all of the AMA, I’m also from BCW too. So his response is expected, pre-prepared answer for every situation he can’t put logical answer.

Why do I think this SIP will lead to a massive sell-out?

1. Dman says he has not sold 1 SOV when the price was ATH - may be true, but there was nowhere to sell it. The only place that allowed trading SOV was sovryn.app itself. If he would have sold his tokens he would have dumped the price and damaged his reputation with premiums he convinced it was the best investment in the entire world.
2. Dman says he has no stakes. Well, he had vesting for sure, like any other whitelisted BCW premium he invested in presales and was vested for 10 months. How do you explain the times he shilled BCW freemium community on buying more SOV just the day before SOV unlocks? I understand it can happen, but 3-4 times? Price was between $20-40, SOV already trading in a couple of exchanges.
3. Not so long ago, a week or two, when bitcoin started pumping - he started crying to freemiums about “whales manipulating” price and demanded everyone to join him and start selling to bring the price back.
   Of course, it was not because he wanted to show these whales that it was not their place to pump price.
   He and premiums just had sell orders open and needed freemiums to bring back price down to cut losses.

He talks about the team’s greed, but he is the most greedy of them all.
He talks about team selling-of, but the same goes for premiums.
He publicizes private conversations, but only parts it’s good for him, leaving out his ridiculous demands.

How the f*k do you expect SIP to be put to vote in 15 mins? And you see, he don’t think people would start thinking about this SIP, just approve it.

SIP is super vague, burn 50% or lock 100% for 10 years of tokens - So to which we are voting? What are the rules for the lock? Will they be able to withdraw once a year? once a month? at the end of the period?

Change UX - to what? what is the suggestion for a change?

Only demands, lies, manipulation, threats, and distortions of fact.
Oh, looks like I wrote about Putin instead. Slava Ukraine.

[TheGies]

I fully agree with Dman and this SIP. Please listen to him/us and catapult SOV!

[justfine]

@harmaus
As bcw member myself I had some issues with the rough way D man went in here, even if I understand he did this to shake people up and challenge them. Most people will show their true colors. Unfortunately we are all human beings so when charged upon will often go flight/fight modus. D Man however is always sincere. He is loud but doesn’t have an hidden agenda. If you ask yourself if you were completely sincere when you wrote this piece, even if you present it as facts, you know the answer. So stop framing this way please.
Your 3 points are made-up insinuations and as insider I know that as a fact.

[harmaus]

Of course, I made up this, never said it’s true - just that it looks the way it is, and who knows it may be true even if chances are slim.

Showed how easy it is to spill shit and spread your lies by exposing only part of the truth.

What I truly don’t like is how he shows other people as not flexible but himself only demanding some things without clarifying what exactly these things are. And doesn’t want to even discuss anything - just do it now.

I agree changes are required, SIP has some valid points, but it just touched the tip of the iceberg.

As other users pointed out, and I didn’t see an answer to this:

• what exactly this sip does, burns or locks?
  = how the unlock schedule is going to happen? monthly, yearly, etc?
• why it’s a good idea to remove staking and how do you secure protocol?
• if the team will not be able to pass protocol upgrades after token burn, then how do you think it will be upgraded if users will just not vote at all and upgrade sips will just not get enough support, even if its a critical bug fix - too much of risk to me at such early stage.
• speaking of UI/UX - once again, there is nothing said about what must be changed.

Until SIP is drafted explain step by step what’s gonna be changed and how it will work afterward, it’s just a discussion and not SIP yet. Otherwise, we are just signing contracts blindly.

I’m already deaf, do not ask me to be blind too.

[wang]

Regarding UI, I think it would be easiest to cooperate (bribe) fxdx team to introduce their DEX with limit orders on rBTC platform.

FXDX Exchange

Introduction

[Moeloe]

sorry to say, but you sound like a little kid here.
calling names to the mods.

in that message was nothing offensive or bad for the discussing, therefore i highly doubt any of the mods removed that particular message.

i’ve seen a lot of ‘in favor’ messages for your SIP, none of them was removed.
why would they remove what you claim they removed?
maybe the writer did something wrong? maybe it was a mistake from him? pressing the wrong button? trying to write it on his phone and something went wrong? i dont know, just saying.

but this is sad to see

the discussion is still fully on. there is actually a lot of good stuff said in this thread from both sides, against it and in favor.
lets keep it clean and nice in here

[justfine]

Thanks man for the clarity.
Can’t talk for D Man but besides the 3 points in the sip itself the aim seemed to be to pin Yago down on his commitment for change, and put pressure on him, also regarding his flaws. He doubled down on that after the AMA’s and Yago backed out. The points agreed upon found their way in the sip as suggested by Yago to submit. So there still needs to be done work on the SIP alright, but it was about the framework, on which he agreed.

[wang]

DMAN, you are acting like small kid. Whole world have to turn around you.

[Bob_Loblaw]

I am also from BCW, been there for years, been in premium a few times and I entirely agree with the 3 points you posted above. I could add to the list but that’s not the place to do so. Also I want to add that I am not a Sovryn fanboy.

I am sorry the following is going to sound personal but I swear it isn’t. Still I believe it has to be said for the benefit of some recent BCW followers and the Sovryn community.
D man is a manipulative bully. He is probably megalomaniac and delusional in psychiatric way. I am pretty sure he honestly does not remember all the wrong advice he has given in the past to his premiums and freemiums. He will only go on and on about how good he is… and will start to believe it himself. He does not care for anything but himself and above all his reputation.
On the Telegram channel, there is no way to answer or comment (although recently the “emojis voting” was added which pisses him off as he thinks everybody should agree with him… but doesn’t) so he is clearly not used to seeing people disagree with him. I don’t think he is capable of having a measured conversation / debate with someone who will not blindly agree with him. He does not listen.

In the case of this SIP, point 3 is valid but no indications of how to achieve this are given so thanks but simpler said than done.
Other than that, anyone but D man (and the brainwashed or knowingly greedy BCW members) can see that the only purpose of this SIP is to pump the price with total disregard for the long term implications on the project. I’m not even gonna go into the details how it is vague, fuzzy and poorly written. D man knows and knew from the start that his SIP cannot and will not pass. He will and has already started to blame it on “Yago and the insiders” (I am certainly not with them) without anything to support that claim. Maybe it simply is not a good idea and should certainly not bundlel 3 in 1 ?
The whole purpose of this stunt is to give him the opportunity to say to the BCW community "Brothers I did all I could to save this project but the team will not listen to my brilliant (barely formed) ideas because they are idiots so let’s dump SOV. Still I was right to tell you this was the best investment ever, even now that you have lost all your money! " Yeah, the cognitive dissonance does not bother him in the slightest.

Having said I will freely admit that I am/was in Sovryn mostly for the financial gain and that I don’t really believe that Sovryn will succeed in the long term. It could but I doubt it.
The whole narrative “Defi on Bitcoin” is simply not true. It’s not on Bitcoin it’s on RSK. Therefore there is a bridge and you have to “wrap” your btc to rbtc (potential vulnerabilities). So it’s not fundamentally any different than wrapping on any other chain. The whole merge mining of RSK bringing bitcoin security to RSK is also inaccurate. Sovryn entirely depends on RSK being successful and maintained. Too many dependencies…
The whole Sovryn idea comes from a bitcoin maximalist point of view. The latter is in my opinion at best delusional but most likely intellectually dishonest or/and greed induced.
Of course there will be many blockchains cohabiting in the future. Why would there only be one? What advantages would that bring to the world as a whole ? How could all possible applications work on a single chain? Since when does the one-size fits all works?

Anyway I’ve gone off topic. In conclusion I’ll summarize my thoughts: I don’t necessarily think Sovryn will succeed but at least I have the intellectual honesty to admit that D man’s SIP (although it would most probably provide me with a nice pump to dump my SOV) is certainly not the best course of action for the project in the long run.

I guess I have probably made friends on both sides of the equation with this post! Ah ah…

[Panthera_Pardus]

So Harmaus, you made this up and stir some more controversy, nice.

I’m a BCW member and you say you’re a BCW member too, but based on your Twitter profile and website you rather appear to be some kind of Sovryn development partner that claims to test decentralization, interesting… Well, partner, Sovryn appears to be your sole customer based on these media. How’s that agenda for transparency?

But okay, how’s that Sovryn “decentralization” to your liking so far? E.g. “community voting” actually appears to be more like team voting, well that is, if voting is permitted by “Sovryn Guardians” at all. This forum thread appears to be censored in part too. Project leadership presenting “evidence” on the basis of semi-transparency and refusing further dialogue. But hey nevermind, as you yourself paint only half of the picture as well and rather like to make a showcase for some unfounded innuendos at your own discretion based on half of the puzzle pieces.

And of course, in general this SIP would need more dialogue, research, detail, etc., but - besides the sincere intentions of the 3 improvement areas of this SIP - by submitting this SIP D Man foremost appears (to want) to expose non-decentralized practices and to spur both community and team action as Sovryn its time might be running out pursuing the current course and piling up of delay after delay and failure after failure.

And on a side note, you as being a Sovryn development partner, a professional one I assume, how can you ask D Man for what must be changed about the UI/UX? That’s the assignment for the UI/UIX professionals in the agile development team(s), not D Man as a stakeholder its job. Or is it the backend developers coding the frontend on the fly too?

[Mambo4]

I cannot believe what I am reading here! BCW a “shady pump and dump group”? You have no idea what BCW is, and how many efforts D-Man and other members did in order to help making Sovryn a success. BCW never never never does pump and dump. I am holding SOV-tokens that had a value of 250000$. I did not sell one single token then because I believed in the project and thought it would have a great future. Now the value of the tokens is just somewhere between 12000$ and 16000$. It would not matter to me if at least the efforts of BCW to reverse that drop would by appreciated. And instead we are called a pump and dump group now! Now I wish I had sold all my tokens when they still had more value.

[DMAN]

What a bunch of bullshit.

If I didn’t sell one single token even to date… why or how the fuck would I benefit from shilling before unlock. I didn’t even know when the unlocks are so I repeatedly asked Dragonly and others as I, believe it or not, don’t pay attention much to those things if we are in for a long run.

[DMAN]

@Mambo4

I cannot believe what I am reading here! BCW a “shady pump and dump group”? You have no idea what BCW is, and how many efforts D-Man and other members did in order to help making Sovryn a success. BCW never never never does pump and dump. I am holding SOV-tokens that had a value of 250000$. I did not sell one single token then because I believed in the project and thought it would have a great future. Now the value of the tokens is just somewhere between 12000$ and 16000$. It would not matter to me if at least the efforts of BCW to reverse that drop would by appreciated. And instead we are called a pump and dump group now! Now I wish I had sold all my tokens when they still had more value.

They don’t. They don’t care. They are on the mission from the top to discredit, and yet the support is clearly seen. I have withdrawn the sip so they can rest… their tokens are safe… but you will always know… you could have done something to lift Sovryn off the ground!

[harmaus]

I’m a BCW member and you say you’re a BCW member too, but based on your Twitter profile and the website you rather appear to be some kind of Sovryn development partner that claims to test decentralization, interesting… Well, partner, Sovryn appears to be your sole customer based on these media. How’s that agenda for transparency?

I’m not a partner nor employed by Sovryn, I have a hobby project and making a mobile wallet. Haven’t asked for their permission or made SIP for this, just went ahead and made it as a community member.
Why did I make it? Wanted to test out how mobile wallets work and choose to build around sovryn because I had an origin’s token vested and I wanted to be able to withdraw them and swap at any point without having to carry my hardware wallet and computer around while traveling. Guilty of that.

But okay, how’s that Sovryn “decentralization” to your liking so far? E.g. “community voting” actually appears to be more like team voting, well that is, if voting is permitted by “Sovryn Guardians” at all. This forum thread appears to be censored in part too. Project leadership presenting “evidence” on the basis of semi-transparency and refusing further dialogue. But hey nevermind, as you yourself paint only half of the picture as well and rather like to make a showcase for some unfounded innuendos at your own discretion based on half of the puzzle pieces.

Indeed there is no decentralization in the voting power, but I haven’t seen any solution on how to make sure that removing that power from the team does not open issues to the protocol.
Other than a security one, my concern is that they will prepare some new features or bug fixes, will make SIP, and then not enough people will vote because they have something else to do. So without some % of votes, SIP will just be discarded by default.
I myself voted only for a couple SIP’s, there will be a lot like me.
By the way, even if team power would be reduced by burning, chances are most of the community, me included, would just delegate our VP to some team member, again increasing their VP.

And of course, in general this SIP would need more dialogue, research, detail, etc., but - besides the sincere intentions of the 3 improvement areas of this SIP - by submitting this SIP D Man foremost appears (to want) to expose non-decentralized practices and to spur both community and team action as Sovryn its time might be running out pursuing the current course and piling up of delay after delay and failure after failure.

As you said - dialogue and research is a must here. But it does not look like Dman wants dialogue. Just tries to enforce what he drafted in an instant and does not want us to take another look at it before voting.

And on a side note, you as being a Sovryn development partner, a professional one I assume, how can you ask D Man for what must be changed about the UI/UX? That’s the assignment for the UI/UIX professionals in the agile development team(s), not D Man as a stakeholder its job. Or is it the backend developers coding the frontend on the fly too?

Just to make clear: I’m not a partner and not UX/UI professional. But I do know something about coding.
I consider myself a stakeholder too, but it didn’t stop me from making alternative UI (app) to solve problems I had. My UI is still shit, but it works and can be changed by proposing changes to the github.

In my opinion that part should not be in a SIP, anyone can make UI as its only skin.

What I think sovryn team doesn’t have is a UX/UI professional, someone who researches user behavior and especially crypto projects.

If this part is needed in the SIP, then it should demand UX/UI professional with crypto background to be hired, who, then would have a purpose of making dapp user friendly.

[harmaus]

Ofc, I said it myself.
But as much as it’s bullshit, it may be true too.
Only you know how it is.

If I didn’t sell one single token even to date… why or how the fuck would I benefit from shilling before unlock. I didn’t even know when the unlocks are so I repeatedly asked Dragonly and others as I, believe it or not, don’t pay attention much to those things if we are in for a long run.

This actually didn’t help your case, just added fuel. How come you were always shilling a day before tokens are unlocked?

I do have a good explanation for this, but you get defensive to every question and do not answer it. Let me do it for you:

"Shilling before unlocking pumps the price, so stakers who get their stakes unlocked would not start selling trying to exit because of the stagnating price before unlock. Chances are better to keep users and hold when price goes up and not when it goes down. "

It was good times, thank you for that.

[DMAN]

Man, who the fuck you are to say something didn’t help my case. Who the fuck you are? Like I have to justify anything to you.

I presented a SIP to the people. With arguments why particular changes.
Imagine if it gets you excited that I sold all my tokens and that I don’t own any SOV and that I dumped them on the first occasion… are the arguments in this sip don’t apply?

The whole point is about Sovryn, not about me.

I, like many, probably most people here want to see it succeed.
We just see different methods of achieving it. I presented mine. People tend to like it.

And absolutely I used my position of having massive reach to the people to propose changes that ordinary people unfortunately cannot get proposed as they would be shut before saying a word.

You think in Nazi Germany you could say something against Hitler?

You think ordinary men without much much support and power could help explain shooting people or experimenting on them is not a cool thing?

Only this is where I am different, other than that, I am just your ordinary guy who wishes good for SOV.

And yes, my methods are different than your methods maybe. Maybe you don’t even like me (oh you most definitely don’t), maybe you are even an insider of Yago or influenced by the team… it doesn’t matter… isn’t the good for Sovryn also in your interest?

If so, you should only review the sip, and ignore a man you will never meet, who you don’t care for and who doesn’t give a two flying fucks about you either.

Use this sip as an opportunity to either check “hey, this could be changed, let me use this opportunity now that he proposed it” or “hey, it’s better the way it is currently” and that’s it.

Evolve your thinking. Don’t be a monkey. (pun intended to see what’s more important to you, the personal with me, or the project you are in and the good of it)